Are marketers still afraid of the web? Part two of our interview with Joseph Jaffe

Part one: Are marketers still afraid of the web?

Part two: Are marketers still afraid of the web?

After his successful session at the ADMA Forum, Joseph Jaffe squeezed in a chat with Marketingmag.com.au to give us his thought on why marketers are not ustilising the web as well as they could be and and the role of social media in marketing.

So basically, following the dotcom bust, marketers are still not seeing the web as anything – well, not utilising the web anything more than just banner ads and things like that. Would you agree?

Yeah, I would absolutely agree. In fact my company Crayon recently changed its mission statement or the ‘elevator pitch’ – our key positioning. It used to be just focused on the social media and the conversation, but what we do now is we help brands and companies leverage new media and social media from a strategic standpoint. Our point is that we’re backwards, to answer your question. 

The social media challenge right now is that the market is not predominantly tactics in search of strategy – solutions in search of a non-existent problem. That’s the problem with new media – it has become old media!
I mean look at the demise of Yahoo and AOL and even MSN, the three major portals. They fell into the trap where, from the perspective of the sellers, they were so enamoured and taken with the demise of the 30-second spot that they basically just tried to emulate it. So you can’t reach 80% of the US with three ads on the three networks, but you can put your 30-second spot or find a new home in a new haven on our home page. 

The point is the lack of innovation and creativity has almost become egregious in the new media space – reaching frequency and the branding hangover. The direct marketing hangover is the ad networks, performance based pricing, and the cost per lead and cost acquisition statistics trying to take existing metrics and transpose them or just transplant them into a platform or on to a platform that almost must be thought of as a transformative platform.

Not only is it a better mousetrap, it’s beyond that – it’s a trap that can trap a lion. It’s so much bigger and so much more powerful.

I’ll just give you an example that I often use: take something like an online store front – your online store front is in arguably as important as your offline store front (arguably more important). No problems with rude sales people, no problems with store hours and store closings, no problems with inventory and out of stock, etc.
It is just so much more efficient and effective, but more importantly, you look at msn.com as an e-tailer – people that like this book like that book. The up-sell and the cross-sell that is built into the model, the reviews, the ratings – it’s just profound.

Other than msn.com, eBay and Priceline, why are we not seeing brand interpretations of Amazon and eBay? What Amazon did to Barnes and Noble the book store, like what eBay did – I don’t think there ever was a consumer facing auction or marketplace. The fact is we’re not seeing brand presence in the new media world on a par with some of the e-tailers, but certainly utilised in a transformative way.

Do you think that there’s a danger that marketers will look at a social media platform and go, “Okay, this is the new – this is where we’re going to start our new strategy through,” and in that way, abandoning any other online creative in their executions they could explore?

Interesting question. To the extent that social media is the next bright and shiny new object, then yes. I use the analogy of six-year-olds playing soccer. They all bunch around the ball, they all kick each other’s shins, just blindly kicking at air, and then one person almost by fluke makes contact with the ball and the ball shoots out and then the whole mob follow.

I think the thing is that social media today, if we had to whip out the old report card and judge the level of adoption, implementation and activation across the board from a brand presence and investment stand point, it would be predominantly tactical, and because of that, would be very much focused and very superficial and one dimensional.

I once looked ‘creativity’ up in the dictionary, and the phrase that popped up for me was this idea of ‘productive originality’. It means basically doing things differently and getting a result. Of course, that’s juxtaposed with Einstein’s definition of insanity, ‘doing the same thing only expecting a different result’. So I think creativity is relative.

If we think about creativity in terms of winning an award at Cannes, then who cares. However, if we’re thinking about creativity as in doing business in a more profound way that it creates the ultimate win/win – the end economy which is one where both the consumer and the marketer wins.

There is the creation of value for the consumer and there’s the derivement of value for the marketer, which is it’s not just blind servicing of customers or consumers who don’t return that favour in the form of loyalty or word of mouth or patronage. That’s a very short-lived and one-sided exchange that ultimately is going to lead to a less than satisfactory result.

Joseph Jaffe, Part VI – some riffs on brand arrogance, digital storytelling and the future of marketing and advertising

This post is the sixth in a series of six that feature an exclusive
video interview with international speaker and author Joseph Jaffe.
Click below to read the others:

  1. Exclusive video interview: Joseph Jaffe, Part I – the winners and losers of social media marketing
  2. Part II – will online video blogging fizzle out?
  3. Part III – why is Australia lagging behind in social media?
  4. Part IV – Second Life as a marketing outreach tool
  5. Part V – did Joseph Jaffe blackmail a major airline?
  6. Part VI – some riffs on brand arrogance, digital storytelling and the future of marketing and advertising.

You asked the questions, and he answered them.

In this final installment of our six part series of video interviews with Joseph Jaffe, Ive collected together the cutting room floor conversations we had and put them in two slightly longer videos.

So tell your boss that youve got a 15 minute call to make, block out that time, plug in your headphones and listen to Joseph and I discuss:

  • the arrogance of many brands who imagine that just because theyve had a business for a few years, they will have one for many more to come;
  • some of the storytelling techniques – both old and new – needed for compelling creative executions in the digital space;
  • how marketers will have to evolve as a species to meet the challenges of a rapidly changing environment;
  • cause marketing, purpose-based marketing, and recognising how marketers and marketing can actually make a difference in the world;
  • customer service as an increasingly vital role in organisations;
  • and much, much more!

If youve been with us throughout this series youll be prepared for some slightly bizarre lip-synching issues with this video. What can I say, except that Im willing to be out of synch to get inside the amazing brain of Joseph Jaffe, and I hope you guys are too!

If youve been lurking and listening over the series, or if this is your first time watching this series, why not jump into the comments and tell Joseph what you think. I know hes reading the site and Im sure hed love to get stuck into some debate on marketing with Australias best and brightest :-)

I just want to say a massive thank you to Joseph and the Conscience Organisation (TCO) for coming along for the ride, and to thank the Australian marketing community – yes everyone, Im talking to YOU – for contributing questions and driving debate around some of Josephs ideas.

We met up with Joseph in Sydney last night for a drink with some of
Sydneys bloggerati. Stories were shared and there were videos being
taken. If there is anything without too many swear words, we might even
put it up here on marketingmag.com.au. Thanks to TCO
for sorting out Josephs whirlwind speaking tour that lasted from 19-21
August. If youre keen to discuss anything relating to Josephs visit,
please contact krystal@theconscience.org.


If you enjoyed this series of exclusive video interviews with Joseph Jaffe, consider registering with marketingmag.com.au.
As well as letting you comment on exclusive video interviews, blogs
from a cross-section of industry experts and the latest daily marketing
news, youll also be able to search our extensive range of marketing
jobs and get headhunted by top employers and agencies from across
Australia.

As a registered member of marketingmag.com.au, youll also be able
to enter our monthly competitions and youll be able to take advantage
of our special members-only rates to conferences and seminars
throughout the year.

Register and become part of Australias online marketing community now!

Joseph Jaffe, Part V – did Joseph Jaffe blackmail a major airline?

This post is the fifth in a series of six that feature an exclusive
video interview with international speaker and author Joseph Jaffe.
Click below to read the others:

  1. Exclusive video interview: Joseph Jaffe, Part I – the winners and losers of social media marketing
  2. Part II – will online video blogging fizzle out?
  3. Part III – why is Australia lagging behind in social media?
  4. Part IV – Second Life as a marketing outreach tool
  5. Part V – did Joseph Jaffe blackmail a major airline?
  6. Part VI – from the cutting room floor.

You asked the questions, and he answered them.

The story behind Zac Martins question to Joseph Jaffe is a story about the power of conversation and the importance of customer service in an age of the networked society.

How would you feel if someone said that your recent events and posts regarding Delta Skelter could be considered blackmail?

If you want to read all about the Delta Skelter issue in depth, then head to Jaffe Juice, Josephs blog and read the original post: Delta Skelter

The skinny on this issue is that after enduring a nightmare journey with the airline Delta, Joseph was forced to travel coach (economy) when he had been confirmed in a business class seat. The customer service provision by Delta was inadequate, and Joseph took up the issue on his blog to illustrate the open paradigm of customer service that exists in todays blogging-fuelled mediascape.

But the real question is, was this tantamount ot blackmail?

Watch the fifth in this series of video interviews with Joseph and decide for yourself: blackmail, or the changing nature of customer service marketing in a Web 2.0 world?

We met up with Joseph in Sydney last night for a drink with some of Sydneys bloggerati. Stories were shared and there were videos being taken. If there is anything without too many swear words, we might even put it up her eon marketingmag.com.au. Thanks to TCO for sorting out Josephs whirlwind speaking tour that lasted from 19-21 August. If youre keen to discuss anything relating to Josephs visit, please contact krystal@theconscience.org.


If you enjoyed this series of exclusive video interviews with Joseph Jaffe, consider registering with marketingmag.com.au.
As well as letting you comment on exclusive video interviews, blogs
from a cross-section of industry experts and the latest daily marketing
news, youll also be able to search our extensive range of marketing
jobs and get headhunted by top employers and agencies from across
Australia.

As a registered member of marketingmag.com.au, youll also be able
to enter our monthly competitions and youll be able to take advantage
of our special members-only rates to conferences and seminars
throughout the year.

Register and become part of Australias online marketing community now!

Joseph Jaffe, Part IV – Second Life as a marketing outreach tool

This post is the fourth in a series of six that feature an exclusive
video interview with international speaker and author Joseph Jaffe.
Click below to read the others:

  1. Exclusive video interview: Joseph Jaffe, Part I – the winners and losers of social media marketing
  2. Part II – will online video blogging fizzle out?
  3. Part III – why is Australia lagging behind in social media?
  4. Part IV – Second Life as a marketing outreach tool
  5. Part V – did Joseph Jaffe blackmail a major airline?
  6. Part VI – some riffs on brand arrogance, digital storytelling and the future of marketing and advertising.

You asked the questions, and he answered them.

The fourth short video in our Q&A series with Joseph Jaffe
features a question from Connie Reece, a communications consultant and social media maven from Austin, Texas. She runs the company and AdAge 150 blog everydotconnects.com, a social media consortium, and is an active Second Life resident. If you want to find out more about Connie, check out this short video interview with her:

3Q’s in 3 Min: Connie Reece, Every Dot Connects

Connie has this question for Joseph:

Does having a presence in Second Life remain important for Crayon [Josephs company] and for what type of business would Second Life be effective outreach?

Sitting in on a presentation at the recent Advertising and Marketing Summit (check out our exclusive video interview from the summit with Richard Freudenstein, CEO of News Digital) I listened as Gary Hayes discussed the many different types of marketing opportunity in Second Life and other social virtual worlds.

Whatever your opinion of Second Life right now, his presentation was a compelling view of how many people around the world are choosing to spend their time and how advertisers might think about meeting those participants in their own environment. Check out Garys presentation slides from that summit below:

Marketing Opportunities in Social Virtual WorldsA presentation by Gary Hayes, head of virtual worlds, TPF, and director, LAMP@AFTRS.

Once again, I have to apologise for the audio and video being out of
sync. If it starts to annoy you, just close your eyes and find the happy place :-)

Joseph arrives in Australia with the help of TCO for a whirlwind speaking tour that lasts from 19-21 August. If youre keen to get a chance to hear Joseph, you might like to consider booking him by contacting krystal@theconscience.org.


If you enjoyed this series of exclusive video interviews with Joseph Jaffe, consider registering with marketingmag.com.au.
As well as letting you comment on exclusive video interviews, blogs
from a cross-section of industry experts and the latest daily marketing
news, youll also be able to search our extensive range of marketing
jobs and get headhunted by top employers and agencies from across
Australia.

As a registered member of marketingmag.com.au, youll also be able
to enter our monthly competitions and youll be able to take advantage
of our special members-only rates to conferences and seminars
throughout the year.

Register and become part of Australias online marketing community now!

Joseph Jaffe, Part III – why is Australia lagging behind in social media?

This post is the third in a series of six that feature an exclusive
video interview with international speaker and author Joseph Jaffe.
Click below to read the others:

  1. Exclusive video interview: Joseph Jaffe, Part I – the winners and losers of social media marketing
  2. Part II – will online video blogging fizzle out?
  3. Part III – why is Australia lagging behind in social media?
  4. Part IV – Second Life as a marketing outreach tool
  5. Part V – did Joseph Jaffe blackmail a major airline?
  6. Part VI – some riffs on brand arrogance, digital storytelling and the future of marketing and advertising.

You asked the questions, and he answered them.

The third short video in our Q&A series with Joseph Jaffe
features a question from one of Australias new breed of advertising agency, Fnuky. Simon is also a founder of Love Digital, a website dedicated to making digital media less scary for marketers, a cause after our own hearts too.

Simon Small from Fnuky has this question for Joseph:

Australia is currently ranked number 15 in the developed world in terms of uses of social media in marketing. Why do you think that is?

I couldnt resist expanding a little on Simons question too and asking Joseph:

What are the challenges that marketers face in trying to embrace this rapidly evolving landscape?

Once again, I have to apologise for the audio and video being out of
sync but I think Im starting to enjoy it in a weird kind of way :-)

Joseph arrives in Australia with the help of TCO for a whirlwind speaking tour that lasts from 19-21 August. If youre keen to get a chance to hear Joseph, you might like to consider booking him by contacting krystal@theconscience.org. Please note though, he doesnt do balloon animals.


If you enjoyed this series of exclusive video interviews with Joseph Jaffe, consider registering with marketingmag.com.au.
As well as letting you comment on exclusive video interviews, blogs
from a cross-section of industry experts and the latest daily marketing
news, youll also be able to search our extensive range of marketing
jobs and get headhunted by top employers and agencies from across
Australia.

As a registered member of marketingmag.com.au, youll also be able
to enter our monthly competitions and youll be able to take advantage
of our special members-only rates to conferences and seminars
throughout the year.

Register and become part of Australias online marketing community now!

Joseph Jaffe, Part II – will online video blogging fizzle out?

This post is the second in a series of six that feature an exclusive
video interview with international speaker and author Joseph Jaffe.
Click below to read the others:

  1. Exclusive video interview: Joseph Jaffe, Part I – the winners and losers of social media marketing
  2. Part II – will online video blogging fizzle out?
  3. Part III – why is Australia lagging behind in social media?
  4. Part IV – Second Life as a marketing outreach tool
  5. Part V – did Joseph Jaffe blackmail a major airline?
  6. Part VI – some riffs on brand arrogance, digital storytelling and the future of marketing and advertising.

You asked the questions, and he answered them.

The second short video in our Q&A series with Joseph Jaffe features a question from one of Australias best known bloggers, Gavin Heaton.

Gavin describes himself on his blog, Servant of Chaos:

My name is Gavin Heaton and I live in Sydney, Australia. The Servant of
Chaos blog is my interactive diary capturing my thinking on branding,
digital strategy and the art of storytelling.

Gavins question for Joseph is:

Is Kate Modern the beginning of a trend?

If youre wondering what Kate Modern is, your best bet is to very quickly read the Wikipedia page. But I wouldnt worry too much if I were you – as Joseph himself admits, everything moves so fast in this space youd be forgiven for not having heard of this web-based personal video diary series.

Once again, I have to apologise for the audio and video being out of sync but I think Im starting to enjoy it in a weird kind of way :-)

Joseph arrives in Australia with the help of TCO for a whirlwind speaking tour that lasts from 19-21 August. If youre keen to get a chance to hear Joseph, you might like to consider booking him by contacting krystal@theconscience.org. Please note though, he doesnt do balloon animals.


If you enjoyed this series of exclusive video interviews with Joseph Jaffe, consider registering with marketingmag.com.au.
As well as letting you comment on exclusive video interviews, blogs
from a cross-section of industry experts and the latest daily marketing
news, youll also be able to search our extensive range of marketing
jobs and get headhunted by top employers and agencies from across
Australia.

As a registered member of marketingmag.com.au, youll also be able
to enter our monthly competitions and youll be able to take advantage
of our special members-only rates to conferences and seminars
throughout the year.

Register and become part of Australias online marketing community now!

Exclusive video interview: Joseph Jaffe, Part I – the winners and losers of social media marketing

This post is the first in a series of six that feature an exclusive video interview with international speaker and author Joseph Jaffe. Click below to read the others:

  1. Exclusive video interview: Joseph Jaffe, Part I – the winners and losers of social media marketing
  2. Part II – will online video blogging fizzle out?
  3. Part III – why is Australia lagging behind in social media?
  4. Part IV – Second Life as a marketing outreach tool
  5. Part V – did Joseph Jaffe blackmail a major airline?
  6. Part VI – some riffs on brand arrogance, digital storytelling and the future of marketing and advertising.

You asked the questions, and he answered them.

In the run-up to the arrival of Joseph Jaffe in Australia, Marketingmag.com.au will post one
short video clip every other working day for ten days. Each clip is
part of a long interview we conducted with Joseph using the online
video conferencing software ooVoo, a client of Crayon (Josephs company) and a platform well be playing with over the next few months.

Over the course of the five posted clips youll hear social
media thinkers and marketers from Australia and the US ask Joseph their
questions, which include:

Today | What examples do you give of brands that have successfully started a
conversation online, and which brands have gotten this spectacularly
wrong?
          Tamir Berkman, FRANk Media

Fri 8 August | Is Kate Modern the beginning of a trend?
          Gavin Heaton, www.servantofchaos.com

Mon 11 August | Why is Australia currently ranked only number 15 in the world in terms of uses of social media in marketing?
          Simon Small, Fnuky

Wed 13 August | Does having a presence in Second Life remain
important for Crayon [Josephs company], and for what type of business
is Second Life effective outreach?
          Connie Reece, www.everydotconnects.com

Fri 15 August | How would you feel if someone said that your recent posts and events surrounding Delta Skelter could be considered blackmail?
          Zac Martin, www.pigsdontfly.com

Theres other conversations from the interview, so Ill put these in a bumper final sixth post on Monday 18 August.

Please get stuck into the comments because Ill be meeting up with
Joseph during his short stay in Australia and Id love to be able to
fire some of your questions and thoughts at him over a few beers.

In todays clip, Tamir Berkman of FRANk Media asks Joseph Jaffe:

What examples do you give of brands that have
successfully started a conversation online, and which brands have
gotten this spectacularly wrong?

The audio is a little out of sync with the visuals, so unless you
love badly dubbed movies or are simply transfixed by either Joseph or
myself, Id suggest plugging the earphones in and listening to the man
that wrote the book – literally – on the future advertising landscape.

Joseph Jaffe is used to being asked what the future of advertising looks like. His 2005 book Life After the 30-Second Spot: Energize Your Brand With a Bold Mix of Alternatives to Traditional Advertising laid out a blueprint of the alternative advertsing methods to the mighty TVC, a mix of methods which many in the industry are now flocking to better understand and use in their own marketing plans: word of mouth, conversational marketing, social media marketing – these
are the tools Joseph Jaffe prescribes for reaching out to consumers and
customers, and for delivering value over and above the TVC.

His follow up book in 2007, Join the Conversation, further emphasised the need for marketers to adapt to the brave new world of the internet, social media and networking, consumer-generated content,
blogs, and podcasts by joining the rich, deep, and meaningful customer
conversations already in progress.

Joseph arrives in Australia with the help of TCO for a whirlwind speaking tour that lasts from 19-21 August. If youre keen to get a chance to hear Joseph, you might like to consider booking him by contacting krystal@theconscience.org, but please note, he doesnt do weddings or pantomimes [Ed: joke.]


If you enjoyed this series of exclusive video interviews with Joseph Jaffe, consider registering with marketingmag.com.au. As well as letting you comment on exclusive video interviews, blogs from a cross-section of industry experts and the latest daily marketing news, youll also be able to search our extensive range of marketing jobs and get headhunted by top employers and agencies from across Australia.

As a registered member of marketingmag.com.au, youll also be able to enter our monthly competitions and youll be able to take advantage of our special members-only rates to conferences and seminars throughout the year.

Register and become part of Australias online marketing community now!